do power cables make a differencedo power cables make a difference

do power cables make a difference28 May do power cables make a difference

When they are clean them or shorten them a little. Silver, copper, brass, gold and others all "sound" different. For instance, Shunyata has a youtube video demonstrating the superior peak current capabilities of their cable over a stock power cable. Additionally, because the sample noise was greater than 50% of the average deviation, its not wise to draw the conclusion that these swings arent the result of a low sample size, or even a change in air pressure due to the temperature rising as I was locked in a small room with no airflow. How is this not perfectly reasonable to ask? Justification: High end power cables have better connectors, shielded wire, and better wire (higher conductivity and flexibility). That's a high-end Shunyata cordthis one costs around $1500, far less than the most expensive cords on the market--coiled up like a snake or a slinky. Turns out, the cables just do not make an audible difference. Do power cables make a difference? - High End YETI Power cables VS Do "High End" Power Cables Make a Difference - Home Theater Forum and We will let them address the issue if they desire. The quality of a speaker cable is determined by how well it can transmit the signal from the amplifier to the speaker without alteration. Like many of the manufacturers of high-end audio components, I design my products for myself and for the love of music. Or: "I expected the cable to sound better, but it actually sounded worse, therefore the effect couldn't have been due to expectation bias (which is then mixed up with sighted bias generally). Editors note: 1dB is significant here as it is considered the just noticeable difference threshold for the same frequency sounds (in normal listening volumes) when other sound isnt present. Before we produced our first power cord, we did extensive testing of the audible effects of a variety of devices and materials associated with power transmission. The problem is that the measurements and demonstrations, do not verity their specific claims. Should we find a difference there, well then use the single-channel guitar cable and coathanger version to measure the line-level output to see if its really the cable, or something else thats causing the deviations (Ed. Just use as much wire as you need, which is always good advice for cabling. Yikes. That does not mean a condition or situation does or does not exist. DO THAT. Waitwhat just happened? So it would be great if Blue Jeans Cable could offer nice, thick gauge, but very flexible power cords that can be easily turned around corners and would stay in place. You're basically taking the opinions of a bunch of people and molding them into scientific truth. a) They make a difference. Before I take a deep dive into that, I'd like to hear from folks pro or con on this subject. That certainly sounds like a bias to me. Just accepting the claims without question would be accepting dogma! Mistrustful? But is the effect audible: --> Ah, there's core of the argument. If it was just different, well then it would come down to whatever compromises I preferred. If after trying our product you prefer another - great. Now, serious test gear and other instrumentation goes to far greater lengths to prevent the negative effects of power line noise. For those who dont mainline charts like we do, were looking for a difference over the solid red line before a note is audible without anyother noise near it. January 4, 2023 We often harp on the fact that nobody needs audiophile-grade anything around these parts, but where we make our name is proving it. Oh, those interconnects! Part of this state of affairs is because the problem is just pretty much ignored and thought to be unnecessary in consumer audio products. I think it's a bunch of baloney. Once youve got your cables, if they are like lampcord or zipcord a one-piece pair, held together for most of their length by a thin plastic joiner, CUT that joiner along its full length so that you wind up with two separate cables. Answer: Actually, the component sits between two power conductors: the hot and the neutral. Ideally, measurement techniques should be used to focus in on the noise floor. If youve ever shopped at a commission-based big box retailer, youve probably had someone try to upsell you on expensive cables, gold-plated interconnects, or even specialty power cables. (Horrors!). We took the average of each cables performance and subtracted them from each other to get the total deviation. Can you give a link to Shunyata proving AUDIBLE NOISE has been removed from an audio system? WHY POWER CABLES MAKE A DIFFERENCE - Galen Carol Audio AC power oscillates (alternates) back and forth at a 50-60 Hz rate. b) They do not make a difference. Which means the audible change I perceived was true. Capacitance in cables is usually measured in pf/m (pico farads per meter). Heres how consistent both the control cable and the coathanger cable were over our sampling period. I just find it ironic that a company is actually making the effort to explore actual objective measurements, and everybody just screams how that can't matter anyway. Right away, there are a few issues we can see, but theyre mostly under 1dBand not exactly the way wed expect. Unless theres a problem, you should just consult a spec sheet and enjoy. We sampled two typers of high-end YETI power cable and sampled a stock power cables (the black 'dropveter' as we . As best I can tell, very few - maybe no - manufacturers of audio equipment ever measure the effects of these noise currents on audio systems using their equipment. So, just increasing the wire size is not the easy answer that some might think. Do Power Cords Make a Difference? It is also proven in listening. That's the way we are, a minefield of cognitive errors and biases. Shunyata does have tests proving audible noise has been removed from an audio system, as well as removing mains noise from hospital equipment, where the application is many times more important. Do DC power cables make a difference - Audio Chews Cynical? I do that in my job. As a trained (but not practicing) science, I get especially peeved at the closed-minded folks who wrap their biases in the cloak of basic scientific principles that they often they understand poorly. Do Cables Really Make A Difference? - Audiophile Review By Luis August 25, 2022 --> It's a well-known fact among audiophiles that the power cables connecting your components can make a big difference in the overall sound quality of your system. Some contend the number is 3dB for music, but as it is with everything regarding human perception: that number is a moving target. Nor will you in the future, so the comments are pretty moot. By recording complex signals like music and other noise samples, we can record deviation by subtracting our control response from the coathangers response, and whats left should be everything thats different. Lack of these measurements, by anybody, suggests to me that either nobody cares about this, for reasons I don't have an answer to, or that it's too hard to do with existing test regimes. . It's really easy and glib to just pat everybody on the head and tell them that what they observe is all in their head and not real. On a personal note I would like to say that I was an audiophile long before I was a manufacturer of audio products. But, that does not imply that we can measure or do measure all sorts of things that we can hear. Others are dramatically profound and sometimes surprising in their behavior. Electromagnetic energy can be transformed or redirected to lessen their effects. Do power cables make a difference? Polk Audio Forum Power connections also are conduction paths for common mode noise currents. Nothing has been proven to be true or false. If it was so easy and conventional to measure, wouldn't you think that either side of the discussion would have done this long ago? If they have identified measurable phenomena, claim to have fixed the problemit's obvious the results *should be measurable*. I'd like to see examples of where the noise element of an audio system has been measured and published when multiple desired tones are used as stimulation and the test gear has not been optimized for displaying minimum noise. Some of these use a relatively small wire size of ~18ga, that sounds surprising full in the bass. Pure Music - Do Power Cables make a difference? Audioquest Dragon What really caught my attention though was a demo of one of the company's noise-absorbing cables, featuring Shunyata's Grant Samuelsen. The Red Dawn Power Cord employs high-speed, low-loss, heavy gauge 3 x 14 AWG Micro Mono-Filament conductors sheathed in FEP insulation. Misconception #7: Power cords are just like speaker cables; always the shorter the cable the better. That way, we can achieve results that will be representative of what youd encounter in real life as well as in a perfect anechoic chamber. Cables of even low quality shouldsound little different than expensive ones, so long as the cable can satisfy the requirements of the system using it. It is conducting A.C. power and its sonic superiority will be determined by its ability to deliver current (steady-state and instantaneous) and its ability to deal with the EMI effects of the components to which it is attached. It can happen completely unbidden, because for any number of reasons - tiredness, alertness, a particular mental or physical state, more intent, less intent listening, slight changes in listening position etcyou can "notice" something today you hadn't noticed before. While I trust my skills with a soldering iron, I feel much better knowing that if I do wreck something: it isnt my fault. Saves money, time, product size and weight, and so on. Theoretical performance of a power supply is very different from actual. Audiogon Discussion Forum The speaker cable had a weird issue in the highs, but the consistency was pretty decent otherwise. On the other hand, the shielding may induce re-radiated fields onto the cable or component that it is being used in. First we took several steel coat hangers we got from the dry cleaners, cut off the hooks, and bent them straight. Do power cables make a difference in sound? In general, I would not recommend a power cord that is shorter than 3 feet or 1 meter in length. Think of the fun youre going to have. After you have listened to everything, and believe that you are certain that you know what the System sounds-like set up that way, DOING NOTHING ELSE, AND MAKING NO OTHER CHANGES OF ANY KIND, PULL THE JACKETS OFF BOTH TEST CABLES AND LISTEN AGAIN, using exactly the same recordings played at exactly the same levels. Frothing at the mouth dogmatism? Measuring at the AC outlet, or measuring a medical device, does not verify the claim that their product alters audio signals. This is a good comment--thanks for the reply. Look at the yellow trace, fourth from the top, and compare the top image (before) with the bottom image (after the application of Shunyata's noise reduction). It just means that it hasn't been satisfactorily proven or explained yet. Keep in mind, this is an absolute worst-case scenario for cabling: unshielded steel and zinc arent even as good as low-end cables. The only thing close was that I applauded Shunyatas attempts at trying to quantify noise effects. One problem I have with many high-end power cords is their weight and stiffness; it's common for IEC cords to pull out of the components they power due to their weight and stiffness--and power cords don't sound good when they're disconnected. Just like the TS cable, we heatshrinked each wire, and bound them together with electrical tape. If this idea is wrong and I somehow definitively prove the inverse, the worst thing that could happen is I win a million dollars, so this whole experiment is a big win/win for me. The amazing aspect to many was the use of a Venom strip and PC and the degree of effectiveness even these lower end Shunyata products removed audible noise from the line. The regulations regarding noise are way underspecified and easily gamed.) As I said I hold no a priori belief that AC cables can not make a sonic difference. The price is around $350.). And if you think no one has tested various claims made for various cables (and DACs) etc then you need to visit sites like Archimego's Musings (where he often tests claims via measurements), Audio Science Review, Hydrogen Audio. for $400-$500 I would expect to have polished copper plugs. While you're here You might not be the right guy to ask, but I will anyway! Generally speaking, the more capacitors and inductors that you have in a circuit, the more complex the dynamic interactions will be between the devices. Whats worth your money doesnt always have to perform betterif you enjoy something the placebo effect is strong enough that you will prefer it. Then, the accumulated observational data is "smoothed" into what is called an opinion. "Shielding can be a two-edged sword. Shunyata @106pf/m, whereas a cable from the hardware store measures 102pf/m. We used a loopback on an audio interface in order to measure the response, so theres no measurement data that could have been altered or affected by the room. It just does for a lot of people. Answer: As stated in #1, the component is not at the end of the power hose. As stated in #1 the local current and electromagnetic effects directly affect the sonic . Do Audiophile Power Cables Make A Difference - My Speakers Hub Theres nothing wrong with wanting cables to match your decor or shelling out for additional features, but be honest with yourself: dont claim they sound better. Answer: The power cord is not the last 6 feet, it is the first 6 feet from the perspective of the component. My day job is in the telecommunications equipment biz. As an Amazon Associate we may earn from qualifying purchases. In several review sites, youll see many people swearing up and down that different cables will improve or alter your listening experience somehow, but this isnt strictly true. Should consumers just give up on critical thinking in the face of whatever claim a company wants to make to sell it's product.or is skepticism and critical thinking not a good tool to employ? It is however powerful evidence that the Shunyata power cords are effective at reducing broadband noise in electrical circuits. Do power cables make a difference? When it's placed in series--inline--the further improvement isn't audible, but it is substantial. ALL of the wire and connectors can and do affect the performance of the component's power supply. If one sound is <1dB higher or lower than another sound of the same frequency, you shouldnt be able to hear the difference. Yes. Absolutely true. The object is to cut all the way through the plastic jacket WITHOUT cutting (or even nicking) the braided (or served) shield under it. Do the cables matter? | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum In every single one of the five comparisons, one sample was recorded over a coathanger cable, and the other was recorded with a high-end cable. The current itself cannot be contaminated but the electromagnetic wave can be modulated with other frequencies. Who will win, the coathanger, or the well-engineered consumer cables? "Capacitance alone cannot account for the differences in a power cord's performance. Againthat's why blind testing, placebo-controlled trials etc are used in many areas of scientific study. We dont have access to an anechoic chamber, so we went to a recording studio to collect our samples. (By the way, conventional definitions of the word skepticism do not imply having an open mind going in. How does this happen? Consequently, you should probably just stick with Monoprice, Mogami, or AmazonBasics for your audio cable needs if you dont care about how they look. Heres a very simple experiment that anyone can do at home that should prove to most peoples satisfaction whether cables actually influence the sound of a system and whether or not factors other than just resistance, capacitance, and inductance can influence the sound of a cable. But take a look at the image at the top of this post. Others were a mixed bag. I'm not arguing that. Indeed, there is no surer way to ignite a flame war on any of the audio-video forums that to raise the question of cables. The device under test is also connected to other typical components (in other words, a source, a preamp, and an amplifier) with the other products plugged into the AC mains and powered up. Cost of production will always mitigate against the use of these types of coils due to the expense. That the differences are in fact audible in tests where sighted bias is controlled for. Audiophile Power Cords - Do they really make a difference? They never actually demonstrate AUDIBLE NOISE has been removed from AUDIO systems. I don't know exactly what you're seeing here, but the clarity of the signal has improved dramatically. Lack of supporting evidence does not mean that something does not exist. Theres a reason the normal cable designs havent changed in the better part of a century. In the first case, a single test instrument, imperfect as she or he might be, is observing the performance over a variety of conditions. Some have pointed out that, of course the Shunyata presentation doesn't tell you they chose what seems to be a smaller 18ga stock AC cable to test against the higher 14ga Shunyata cable. I also wasn't expecting that it would be better or worse. You can find a ton of information on the topic with regard to electronic instrumentation, but good luck trying to find any with regard to audio. The quality of these devices varies dramatically. And no, I don't believe anything you've written in your response, as there are several issues with continuity in your response. Jamming things where they dont belong may not always result in fire, but it wouldnt be impossible. (https://shunyata.com/videos/). "A power cable on the other hand is not transmitting a signal. The distance is quite small, on the order of a couple of feet to several feet. Finally, about those web sites you refer to. Power cord upgrade | HiFiVision.com Sub woofers (speakers too) operate at what are considered to be very low frequencies. Learn more. If other people like what I have created - great. Except I also took the further step most people don't bother with. Steven Stone looks at two divergent views on power cords As FM radio tuners recede in prominence, replaced by Internet, Craft Recordings Restores Rare Recordings By Joe Bataan and Art Pepper From Golden Age Of Latin Soul & Jazz In All Analog-Mastered 180-gram Vinyl Reissue Series, Rhino Records Celebrates 50th Anniversary of Nuggets: Original Artyfacts from the First Psychedelic Era 1965-68 With 5 LP Expanded Record Store Day Edition, Legendary Films By Critic Ralph J. Gleason On New DVD, Features Axis Of Psychedelic Music and Hippie Counterculture Including The Grateful Dead, Jefferson Airplane, Santana & Quicksilver, New Vinyl & Streaming Releases: Bird Streets Return, Enos Record Store Day Special Voiceless Edition, Paco De Luca at Montreux, Elusive Late 50s Epic A Modern Jazz Symposium of Music and Poetry With Charlie Mingus Returns In Expanded 2LP Kevin Gray Remastered Deluxe 180-gram Vinyl Reissue, Using Streaming Music Services To Explore A Brazilian Music Legends Remarkable Life Work: Hermeto Pascoal on Qobuz, Tidal, Apple Lossless and Spotify. Not much in there to disagree with. If you want something with interconnects and shielding that a tank couldnt bust: thats also great! Each of the metal's inherent "sonics" can be ameliorated by careful adjustment of the other materials used in the construction of the final cable. Intuitively, you might think that a small wire would sound thin in the bass region. Features Debunking myths about audio cables Save yourself some money: in audio, "basic cable" is a good thing. Some of the effects are quite small and are relatively insignificant. JRW Publishing Company, 2021 Its easier than it sounds, and not only will it give us all a chance to finally settle this thing, once and for all, but it will give YOU the opportunity youve always wanted to be a golden-eared reviewer with an appreciative world-wide audience. Subwoofer cables - Big difference or rip-off? | Audioholics Home We can measure all sorts of things we can't hear. It's good to encounter someone with a mind that's appropriately skeptical but also open. If the power cable presents a high impedance to these signals they will be reflected back into the power supply where they will intermodulate, thus increasing the high frequency noise levels of the component. Im sure the folks there are genuinely sincere about their observations and beliefs. mpitogo Posts: 464 April 2018 edited April 2018 in Electronics I read another thread that you can hear a difference in power cables. If you need a cable like this, it means that the engineers who designed your products were not worthy of the title. Sometimes seeming excesses in audio really are excesses: you dont always need to indulge that upsell at the counter. Some leads are of flimsy construction, and may reduce the available power for sustained loud passages, however, the difference will rarely exceed 1dB in most cases. You will not be able to tell unless youre a child prodigy and have been trained to know what to look for. I believe audiophiles and music lovers should just be reasonable and follow straight forward electrical principles (here's a 10' 14AWG Monoprice for example, or a 6' 14AWG Pangea Audio for a few bucks more), turn up the BS detector when you see the ads of 4-figure power cables claiming apparent sonic improvements. It's almost impossible to design a power supply that is so poor that it *doesn't* already do what these filtering cables do. 177466-165892 What difference do power cables make? Your comment seems to be based on a very common misconception about sighted bias. If you get them ridiculously long, theres an outside chance of encountering some high frequency noise or signal issues. The coathanger cable before soldering to its TS termination. Additionally, you dont want to be responsible for screwing up your equipment or house if you mess up somewhere and short something. At least the part about power supplies not doing what the cables are doing. Do power cables make a difference? - Page 6 Polk Audio Forum Can Power Cords Have an Effect on an Audio System's Sound? "A speaker cable conducts an audio signal from the power amplifier to the speaker. Thats not of question, at least to me. And you seem to be special pleading on behalf of the cable makers. And despite past claims to the contrary from the AES and other seemingly authoritative sources, most people also agree that different electronics sound different. Again, whether Shunyata's products work or not is not for me to say. Most of the thousands of people that use our power cords started out as skeptics and have answered that question for themselves and have found that power cables and power conditioners can have a profound impact on performance. It's just how human beings work. Every instance Ive seen used techniques designed to minimize the effects of random and pseudo random noise in favor of picking out low level repeated signals like harmonic components. Similarly, I could not find any instance where I took any side, never mind pleading, for any cable or any other makers. Today, we're going to try to prove one way or another whether or not high-end cables make a difference for your equipment. This is not a direct demonstration that Shunyata power cords improve the sound of your hi-fi; for that you'd need to visit the show yourself, or try these cords at home. Thank goodness there is also a wide diversity of manufacturers that create products to serve a variety of tastes.. Do Hi-Fi Mains Cables Make a Difference? | Playbutton My point was, and still is, that I have not seen any examples of where an audio component, never mind a system, has been measured with a focus on the noise aspect when desired signals are applied. Power supplies are designed and tested for this, and it's electrical engineering 101. After 3 years of testing, we concluded that just about anything and everything that is inserted in or around the electromagnetic field of a power circuit has an audible effect. But maybe theres something I missed, and maybe that something could be heard by people.

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